Transcript of “Rights Here, Rights Now –

Episode 25: All About Representative Payees.”

Produced by the disAbility Law Center of Virginia.                                                            

[INTRO]: The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice. Instead, all information, content and materials available are for general informational purposes only.

[Enter host, Ren Faszewski.]

[REN]: Welcome to Right Here, Right Now! A podcast about disability advocacy and activism. I'm your Advocate host, Ren Faszewski.

[Enter host, Virginia Pharis.]

[VIRGINIA]: And I'm your Advocate host, Virginia Pharis.

[REN]: Every two weeks we dig into to relevant issues, current events, and avenues for self-advocacy.

[VIRGINIA]: Because someone has to.

[REN]: And it might as well be us.

This podcast is produced and edited by the disAbility Law Center of Virginia, the Commonwealth’s protection and advocacy agency for disability rights. Find out more at: www.dlcv.org.

[VIRGINIA]: Ren, I’m excited.

[REN]: Why are you excited?

[VIRGINIA]: Because we have the fabulous back on today is going to tell us about the representative payee program and Social Security and what is a representative payee and if you're unhappy with your representative payee what you do about it? And just all kinds of Rep payee issues which is really great because, again, I know that a lot our folks calling about those things and they're going to be calling in for her and not me. But first, let’s check out disability in the news.

[STEPHANIE]: I’m Stephanie Sabatini and I’m the Information and Referral Specialist at dLCV. People with disabilities receiving Supplemental Security Income and other Social Security benefits will soon see their payments rise. Benefits will increase 1.3% in 2021. These changes are due to an annual cost of living adjustment that is tied to inflation. Social security benefits always rise when there is an increase in the Consumer Price Index from the US Department of Labor.

The highest payments will begin December 31, 2020 for more than 8 million SSI beneficiaries and in January 2021 will rise for over 64 million across the country. The maximum federal payment will grow from $783 per month to $794 per month in 2021 for individuals, and up to $1,191 per month for couples. Find out more at www.disabilityscoop.com

[Enter, Virginia Pharis and Suzanne Herbst (yay!) J ]

Suzanne, thank you so much for coming to tell us all about representative payees. We're very excited!

[REN]: We're so excited.

[VIRGINIA]: But, we’ll be more excited once you tell us what is a representative payee?

[SUZANNE]: Thank you so much for asking! I know that what everybody wants to hear is details of a social security program and that's what you're going to get today! [LOL!]

So, the Social Security representative payee program is a Benefit Payment Management program for beneficiaries of social security or supplemental security income (SSI) who are incapable of managing those payments. So a beneficiary, by the way, is anybody who receives any kind of social security or benefit or supplemental security income, which we’ll refer to as Social Security Income or SSI. So a Rep payee manages those payments for beneficiaries who can't do so on their own or whose Social Security decides need help managing their money and meeting their own needs.

[REN]: So who can be a Rep payee? How-- how does… how does anyone get chosen to be someone's Rep payee?

[SUZANNE]: Social Security chooses the Rep Payee. They appoint the payees, usually when you apply for any kind of social security or SSI benefit, Social Security, if they try to find a friend or family member first, somebody you're close to, like, an individual. But if somebody like that isn't available they will love to an organization that specializes in being representative payee. [Pause.]

But if you qualify for Social Security or SSI and you are currently capable of managing those benefits yourself there is a very cool option that I'm all about where you can actually like exact like designate in advance 3 people who can serve as your payee if the need arises so that way you're not really leaving it just up to Social Security you can pick who's going to do that in the future.

[VIRGINIA]: That’s so cool! Very cool!

[REN]: Super cool!

[VIRGINIA]: You know we love any kind of future estate planning over here at dLCV. But, do you know, a rep payee isn’t the only opportunity, right? Like, there’s others

[SUZANNE]: Oh no, so…Not every beneficiary deal with their benefits their payments by themselves. They receive them and then they figure out how to best use those payments for their—you know- to meet their own needs.

[SUZANNE]: So just as yet this is not for everybody don't worry it's just thinking that you need to apply for a social security benefit you will not automatically have a rep payee.

[VIRGINIA]: So, you know,—some people some people sort of vaguely need representative payees but like what is The Rep payee doing??

[SUZANNE]: The Rep payee is specifically managing the Social Security or SSI benefits. So they're receiving the benefits on behalf of the beneficiary. They're getting it into a bank account themselves, and then they're deciding if they're paying for the current needs of the beneficiary like rent utilities and a medical expenses food or clothing you know the stuff that you absolutely have to have in order to live a successful life.

And if there's any money left over that payee will help the beneficiary use that remaining money. Sometimes it's for like Recreation or Leisure purposes. Or RENT & then anything after-- That the money should be saved so it's very much managing the money [..] specifically those Social Security fund specifically of the beneficiaries.

I can also add additional a representative payee is obviously we're keeping track of all this money they have to keep detailed Financial Records. You know, when, and how the benefits are being received, how that money is being received, and how those funds are being spent and then they have to report that information to Social Security regularly.

[CONTINUED]: This is especially true if an organization is your payee! If anybody for an example of an organizational payee is like a nursing home sometimes nursing homes will serve as payee for the residents.

Group homes will do that and assisted living facilities will do that. So those organizations have to have to keep the very clear records of that and they report to Social Security individuals. Like if it's you know a family member I think they don't have to report annually anymore.

But they still need to keep records that are available to Social Security when they’re requested.

[REN]: So, for organization to have pretty significant authority over a person's finances so tell me exactly why and how dLCV is involved in the Rep payee program? [Good Q.]

[SUZANNE]: So, for the most part people who have pays are people, who again are in some way shape or form unable to you don't handle their own money. And make bad money decisions. So we are involved because we are making sure that the money is being spent appropriately and an ideal situation.

You know most payees will work with their beneficiaries to see like all right what you know. How much do you need, you know, this month.- How much do you need each week,-- for certain things.

Like we have some extra money what do you want to spend it on and they'll have that relationship that way where they can work together. BUT that's not always the case. So disAbility Law Center received a grant from Social Security to review representative payees.

You may be wondering…Why, Suzanne, that sounds exciting! It is! I think they're exciting but that's just me. (LOL).

[VIRGINIA]: I’ve done them, and I think they’re exciting!

[SUZANNE]: You know, VA, I would hope! [LOL.]

[SUZANNE]: There’re two main parts of a representative payee review. The first part is working with the payee. And the second part is working with the beneficiaries.

With the payee, we do a very long interview with them. We do like a 30-page form. We go over how they keep records, and, how their determining… you know- how much money to spend on what for. Each beneficiary. And we're looking at bank statements, we’re looking at like […] how they're keeping track of money internally.

We want to make sure that funds are being spent appropriately and that the payee is [also] keeping accurate records. That's the big thing. That's like also a good opportunity for payees, who might need a little help. You know we can give them some guidance-- it's not all just like a gotcha thing, like, going in there to find problems. A lot of the time, you know, we see payees who are trying to do it.

[CONTINUED]: But all that financial management is really hard! So we can also give them a little bit of guidance on[ ….] what you need to correct (in order to) to make sure that you are up to standard and you're taking care of your beneficiaries to the best of your ability. And then the second part is the beneficiaries!

We do all those financial reviews that takes a long time. Slowly but surely… your eyes get tired looking over your financials and you think: “You know what I'd really like to talk to a human being!”

And that's when we get to do the fun part, which is talk with beneficiaries! So we interview people and Social Security determines what representative payee we review that's all from them and then they tell us which beneficiaries were going to interview

So we go out and chat with the people Social Security tells us too and we talked to them about you know are you happy with your payee have you ever asked for money for something that you weren't able to get and sort of just trying to make sure that their needs are being served and they're able to live their lives as fully as possible.

As the protection advocacy agency we also try to do like no have a little bit more of the conversation where we try to see if there's you know any other additional services that they may need, you know.

Just in talking to them we've had instances where during a beneficiary of you somebody said: you know I really wish I could work, like I'm bored I want to do something. And we had somebody who had had a brain injury but wasn't getting any of those services and we're able to connect them with Community providers to get those services.

[VIRGINIA]: So, I got in the two-pronged pay financial review are you keeping your records and the beneficiary part of it which is how do you feel about your payee are you getting the things you need? Is there anything else we can do something that's sort of on the flip side of that? You know, do you need additional services that I think is cool about when our dLCV does a representative payee reviews one of those things that [….] Pause.

[SUZANNE]: They ask you know do you think this person needs a payee and occasionally the answer is no they don't have said that they don't you know that's feedback that we can get the Social Security also really empowering for the person.

[REN]: This is also again, I am sure [that] Suzanne will know more but I think it's also not only you know Finding Folks at just don't need Rep payee don't need a Rep payee, but also, folks that are looking to become payees can take over their own finances someday. But they may need assistance so like what you said with connecting them with additional Services if what they're really looking at is you know having you no more teaching regarding financial management and that area. That's also something that I think we're able to do.

[SUZANNE]: Yeah exactly! and the great thing about you know dLCV being involved in getting this Grant from Social Security is all of our reviewers are also experts in other fields for us so we have people who work in institutions who are going out to do these reviews we have people who are you know do vocational rehab reviews of people going out who know these resources like the back of their hand and it's easy to provide those.

[VIRGINIA]: So I've been really wondering about like during the current covid-19 and their been stimulus checks that come out I think at this point as a recording it's like […] with the stimulus checks??

[SUZANNE]: I'm so glad you asked that that's something some of our payees who have done reviews on have called us about and said :Hey what are we doing with these? (Ummm.)

[CONTINUED]: It's important to note that the checks were the economic impact payments as they are most Formerly Known-- that's not a social security! An SSI benefit the representative payee is not responsible to manage that money. However, you know, the address or the bank account that stimulus check goes into is going to be the one that was on your last tax return so if you have a payee that money is likely going to the page directly but your representative payee again not responsible to manage that money. That's something they should discuss with the beneficiary and if the beneficiary wants to use that money on their own, for whatever they want to do that is in their right to do it. AGAIN, because it's not social Security money.

One side of that is the---the representative payee if the beneficiary wants help spending that money or they want support to use that money in a specific way or to save it the representative payee can provide assistance! But! It will be sort of outside of their role as a payee…[pause]

And I know there have been issues sometimes people not receiving their stimulus check from their payee so Social Security Administration does not have the authority to investigate the misuse of those payments. But if your payee is misusing those payments it's possible that they may be misusing other things!! And Social Security can investigate their work as a representative payee and that can result in the appointment of a new pay if they go in and investigate that.

[Enter again, Ren Faszewski.]

[REN]: So, let’s say you’re a representative payee and you really are **not happy** with a representative payee?? With them. You signed up, you know not giving you your you're you know your extra money or that they're not taking care of your rent properly, who do you go to if you have a problem with your payee?

[SUZANNE]: Well you can call dLCV. As I think the answer is at the end of so many of, these podcasts!! (lol), CALL dLCV!

[SUZANNE]: You will to talk to somebody who is well-versed in Rep payee.

[SUZANNE]: There are four (4) main options that will go over with you. This isn't really something that we walk people through the process of but we can just sort of give you…examples… explain these are what your options are? These options are how you start them.

You can change your payee, which you have to go to your local Social Security office. Which will likely only be open, as of recording, partial hours and you'll need to call ahead to make an appointment AND SAY: so I want to be my new payee they sign something helped me out you can (??)

[SUZANNE]: I said earlier that Social Security tells us which representative payee review, which is true, but we can also nominate representative pays for reviews. That still has to be approved by Social Security to do that but if you really don't like your payee, you think that they're doing some pretty serious harm—you can nominate them and we'll go and review them. They would never know that you were the one who nominated them. I always want to make that clear. We don't tell payees you know, John Smith really hates you so we're here to avenge him. It's, you know, social security has selected you or a review so here we go. That's an option. You can also do an online form where you report your payee to the Social Security Administration office of Inspector General. That's a fairly simple form—you provide your information as much information about the payee as you can and then give them very specific like when and where situations of misuse.

They are pretty much only concerned with… I shouldn't say that. They're mostly concerned with financial issues and any kind of financial exploitation or fraud that's what they're really looking for. The last option will go over with you, and you guys had mention this earlier, is removing the payee and becoming your own money manager. The thing that I like to tell people about this is that obviously if you think you can be your own payee you feel really great; you think your condition has improved enough where you can do that. Amazing, we are all for people advocating for themselves.

But just a warning if you do that, it may trigger an eligibility review from Social Security. Where it will say, you know if so-and-so has improved enough they can manage their own money, have they improved enough where they don't need the benefit anymore? That's especially for disability; Social Security disability. And they do reviews they do continue in their views on whether you still need to receive those funds pretty regularly. But this might trigger one. So, it's just something to keep in mind. But obviously we still support—support that if that's something you'd like to do.

[REN]: So, call dLCV that's that's… Call the dLCV is the answer.

[SUZANNE]: Exactly! Call us; we're happy to talk to you about it. You might even get to talk to me about it. Who knows?

[VIRGINIA]: I also just want to throw in there because you mentioned you know if you report the situation to dLCV be or to the Social Security Office of the Inspector General must of that it is going to be about life financial misconduct. But beneficiaries are also you know—certainly able if they are you know physically abused or neglected or financially exploited by representative payee, they can also call Adult Protective Services about that. That's also an option if you're listening and that's your situation that's an option for you.

[SUZANNE]: Exactly and that's something we keep an eye out on when we do reviews. We will you know… COVID makes us a little bit more difficult. In pre-COVID times, we always went to see where you know the beneficiary was living, we would walk around the nursing home, or, walk around a group home, where you know look at the home where beneficiary was living and make sure that they have all of their needs are met; you know it's clean if you know your benefit if your payee says you made any big purchases you know they said well they bought a bed or a new couch we can go in and say, “ah yes, there is the new couch.”

If we go into a place and clearly there's an issue with neglect or abuse, we will also go ahead and refer that case to Adult Protective Services. Or if it's a group home or a nursing home or assisted living facility, we will report it to their licensing board. So we're also going like that... We’re doing those financial reviews but also trying to make sure that, you know, people's needs are being met and they are happy and healthy so those are… Those are big things we look for.

[VIRGINIA]: I’m so glad we’re getting to talk to talk to Suzanne about your Rep payee issues.

[SUZANNE]: Yeah, we started off like I'd love to know more about the details of a Social Security Administration program and as well things are really bad this is what we can do.

[REN]: But thank you… Yeah, but this was great I think that you clearly have a really great understanding of the program I know that a lot of folks are looking for help in this area and clearly you know you and the team are very dedicated and making sure everyone is getting what they need and so props to you.

[SUZANNE]: Thank you. Yeah, we have a great review team here who goes out and does these reviews things are a little bit different how we do them now and covid-19 to get it's a good crew.

[VIRGINIA]: A good crew doing their best! J

[REN]: Well, thank you again, Suzanne, but we look forward to talking to you again next time

[SUZANNE]: Awesome thank you guys so much for having me!

[VIRGINIA]: Thank you again, Suzanne! She’s always a delight- Isn’t she a delight, Ren??

[REN]: YES!! Always a delight. She breaks it down because I know a lot of people are navigating these Rep Payee Waters.

[Pause.]

[VIRGINIA]: Thank you all for listening to this episode of Rights Here! Rights Now, brought to you by the disAbility Law Center of Virginia. We are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Don’t forget to subscribe & leave us a review.

[REN]: If you need more information about dLCV and what we do, you visit us online at www.dLCV.org.

[VIRGINIA]: You can also follow us on Facebook at disAbility Law Center of Virginia.

[REN]: Yep.

[REN]: Until next time, I’m Ren Fazuski.

[VIRGINIA]: And I’m Virginia Pharis. And this has been Rights Here-

[REN]: Rights Now!

[End of Transcriptions]