Transcript of “Rights Here, Rights
Now –
Episode 12: “Social Security”
Produced by the disAbility Law Center of Virginia.
[INTRO]: The
information provided on this podcast does not, and is not
intended to, constitute legal advice. Instead, all information, content
and materials available are for general informational purposes only.
[VIRGINIA]: Welcome
to Right Here, Right Now! A podcast
about disability advocacy and activism. I'm your Advocate host, Virginia
Pharis.
[REN]: And
I'm your Advocate host, Ren Faszewski.
[VIRGINIA]: Every
two weeks we've taken to relevant issues, current events, and avenues for
self-advocacy.
[REN]: Someone has to.
[VIRGINIA]: And
it might as well be us!
[REN]: This
podcast is produced by the disAbility
Law Center of Virginia, the Commonwealth’s protection and advocacy agency for
disability rights.
**Find
out more at www.dlcv.org**
[REN]: Well,
Hello Virginia
[VIRGINIA]: Hello,
Ren, or should I say: hello from afar?
[REN]: Yes!
This is a first for Rights Here, Rights Now...Where we’re recording this
remotely, via software I do not understand.
[VIRGINIA]: Yes, because
right now we are...in quarantine (quarantined).
[REN]: Mhhmmm…
[VIRGINIA]: Well,
the disability Law Center of Virginia is still operating, and we are doing that
mostly remotely, because some of us do not have immune systems.
[REN]: That's
true. And it's very important to protect ourselves during this time, as well as
our constituents, so we're going to model that ourselves.
[VIRGINIA]: Yeah.
[REN]: We're
going to talk about a topic that's super important, and very complicated, like
most of our topics, and-
[VIRGINIA]: **Social
Security**!
[REN]: YES, Social Security!
[VIRGINIA]: (Paused…) I’m
sorry; I didn't realize you were doing a dramatic pause there.
[REN]: It's not a problem. So today, we’ll be
talking about social security, and sort of, I think the first of many we will
be doing kind of a primer episode I think
[VIRGINIA]: Yeah,
we, we’re lucky enough to have the Fantastic Elizabeth Horn here not with us in
the studio but like with a spiritually and on the zoom call that we recorded
this from but before we jump into double check out disability in the news!
[REN]: We are so lucky to have Elizabeth
here with us!
[ELIZABETH]: Hi ladies!
[VIRGINIA/REN]: (Together)
Hi, Elizabeth
[VIRGINIA]: Elizabeth
we are so lucky to have you here talking to us about social security. Because I think we’re used to it being really
kind of daunting and scary, within the world of disability. So, just to guide me in gently, can you just
explain to me what even is social security?
[ELIZABETH]: Oh,
absolutely! And I’d like just to start by saying that at this Law Center, at
The Disability Law Center, we think of these benefits as *absolutely
foundational* for the folks who have disabilities. Because it allows an
income stream that can help keep them stable and help keep their lives going as
best as possible. So, we're very committed to helping people understand this
program. [Which is run by a giant bureaucracy!]
The
Social Security Administration could be considered the
second highest bureaucracy on the planet. Maybe, the second only to the IRS?
(Pause.)
[ELIZABETH]: Think
about that for a moment. You are the little guy trying to access that vital benefit.
So, our job is to disentangle it and to help you make sense of it, and
understand what it is you're trying to begin with.
[ELIZABETH]: So,
what is social security? It’s basically a federal program that’s connected with programs that pays people retirement (or
other) benefits, okay? And so on. And so this is the disability component of
that specific federal program. Doesn't
matter where you live in the country you can still access it.
It basically consists of *two separate* programs-which we’ll talk about. And
there is a third, which we’ll touch on if we need to.
SSI & SSDI.
[ELIZABETH]: Starting
with, SSDI, which stands for Social
Security Disability Insurance Program. That program is for people who
have, quote, “paid into a system.” That means they’ve applied for “taxes” on
their job, and those “moneys” (?) go into a fund, and if, through disability
needs, (necessity), if you have enough credits in that system, then you can apply. Now, if you want to
find out how many credits you need, you could go to our website, where I have a
series of articles or guides that will direct you on that.
**WWW.DLCV.ORG/SOCIALSECURITY**
And
you'll find the guide- one of mine! That says what you need to qualify
financially for SSDI
[REN]: So
it sounds like, to kind of break it down into Leyman’s
terms here, is that, you have to have worked.
[ELIZABETH]: Exactly!
[ELIZABETH]: Had
to have worked in jobs that- where- pay roll taxes are
withdrawn (specifically).
So,
I know that you’ve heard about people working under the table? So to
speak? Those earning are not going to count. Okay? And the other thing is you
have to keep your credits in the system current (currently). So a really good
example is if someone has decided a stay-at-home parent and they do so for
five years in a row without paying into the system- then their insurability in
the disability y program could be compromised. It's
very important to keep credits current. That’s why I recommend that
people even work part time because it doesn’t take much to earn your credit.
[REN]: Sooo, for folks who... maybe haven't worked for a long
time, or have never been able to work, what option do they have?
[ELIZABETH]: Okay!
Well, that’s a great question that I was going to refer to next which is your
supplemental security income program or
SSI, that is designed specifically for the people you're referring to
maybe they haven't worked, perhaps precisely because of disability or who simply elect not to work, then
that program is a set amount- the current payment is $783 a month
,and it comes with Medicaid. Which now, Virginia lifted restrictions on,
(as you know.)
For
any SSI program, however, there are some financial restrictions you should
know. For example you can't have resources in excess of $2,000. And if you're a
couple, then that amount is $3,000.
[ELIZABETH]: So,
you know, if you’ve got a second vehicle for example that’s worth something. Or
even a life insurance policy that's worth over $1,500, you know, things like
that are going to make it difficult for you to access that program. Or, if you
happen to have money, you know in a savings account, that
could prevent you from accessing it. And in terms of income, like, some
form of income that might also affect how much you would get.
[ELIZABETH]: (Continued): ...Some of these
benefits assume that you can’t work, and later we can talk about how you would
work if you had one of these benefits how you would safely [work].
[VIRGINIA]: So
Elizabeth I have to sort of quick questions to clarify my understanding. I
think I know the answer to one of them. So, when people talk about ….when
people say I'm on disability it sounds like for the most part what they're
talking about is SSDI?
[ELIZABETH]: You
know, often people actually don’t know the difference in the terms. They may
say “disability,” and it may *actually* be an SSI benefit... so you really
should try and clarify, especially when people call in to our agency we would
like to clarify, you know what you DO OR just don't know.
[VIRGINIA]: And
my other question was I know that people, when they retire, or when they turn
65 sometimes start collecting Social Security they collecting SSI or SSDI?
[ELIZABETH]: Okay
well, *TWO* things: - If you are a person on an SSDI benefit and you reach your
retirement age with whatever that is and it's not earlier than 66 for anyone
now. Now these days that retirement benefit which is almost exactly the same
amount as your disability benefit.
(Pause.)
[ELIZABETH]: Okay,
now if you're somebody who just did not get SSI can you reach the age of 65
will simply convert to what's considered to be a low
income elderly SSI benefit amount… The amount is identical. It just converts.
[REN]: So
it sounds like I can kind of based on what you've already talked about that
getting SSI or SSDI is pretty narrow it's, it's not you know it's kind of a
very small hoop to jump through so how do how does a person even know if they
qualify for Social Security in any form?
[ELIZABETH]:
You're such a great question
because really accessing this program his difficult kind of need to know this
up front just because you have a condition that affects you and you may seem
disabling sue you if not mean that Social Security is going to agree with that.
So they have come up with a whole series of criteria or questions that they
ask. They review evidence that ** you submit** used to see if you meet their
criteria.
[ELIZABETH]: Like,
I can really very briefly go over those criteria? Would that be helpful?
[REN]: Yeah,
I mean, I think a lot of this is you know particularly the idea of like how was Virginia said getting disability and if you have
had them into disability that definition that I have might be very different
than Social Security’s definition. (of disability)
[ELIZABETH]: Right!
Well, their definition is pretty set in stone. They have a very tightly defined
definition of disability. But, as we know, you CAN HAVE MULTIPLE
conditions. By our definition of disability you can have both of them. They
start with the question of this- “Do you have a severe mental or physical
disability?” You can have **multiple conditions.** You
don’t have to just put forward ONE. Because [actually] the combinations of
conditions could actually make it be what is difficult for you to make it
work.
Secondly,
a condition or condition*S* has to have existed *already* or it is expected to
last 12 months. Thirdly, the condition may be, what’s considered very, very, limiting.**
An
example of that may be somebody who is a quadriplegic, for example, or somebody
who has Lou Gehrig's Disease, or anybody who knows
anything about these knows that they’re not going to be able to work.
(Pause. Mhhmmm.)
[ELIZABETH]: Outside
of those listings, of which there are many, you have to be able to prove that
you can’t. work! And I'm talking about not being able
to **perform *any* job** in the *entire National
economy*!
(Pause.)
[ELIZABETH]: Think about that! Think about...the
simplest job you can think of! And you have to not be able to even do that!
[VIRGINIA]: Yeah,
that’s a lot more narrow than I would have thought!
[ELIZABETH]: Yes,
it's very narrow. so they're not trying to replace the
professional’s income. It’s, they really just want to know can you work at all
or can you not?
[ELIZABETH]: (Continued):
Now, that being said, I need to clarify immediately,
if you are over 50, those criteria do relax.
And
they add in questions about you age, your education, your work experience, and
they do consider that aging has an impact on a person's ability to work.
So they have these benchmarks. Okay? So the older you get the easier it is to
get (obtain) benefits.
Keep
in mind too that if you think about that really, really simple job and wonder
if we have to rule that out to there's a lots of things that can rule out even
simple jobs. Like, a person's memory, their ability to focus, or chronic pain
that is so persistent across a day that it can cause such exhaustion and
fatigue, that it can cause such a difference
that person isn't going to be able to sustain a simple work. And so, those are
the things that social security will consider.
You
have to have really, really good evidence of that, and you have to have had to
be more subjective things that are harder to document.
[ELIZABETH]: That's
why I want to get into the next topic. You don't mind how to DOCUMENT YOUR DISABILITY. So, are we
good about switching gears here?
[VIRGINIA]: Yeah!
Get us ready tell us what we need to do to apply for Social Security.
[REN]: All
of us need to apply. All of us, across the board, just everybody. So, I know
I'm ready!
[VIRGINIA]: I'm
ready I see myself in this description! Yes, sign us up!
[ELIZABETH]: Okay,
so for starters you have to be having treatment from the medical profession. [A
medical professional]. Unfortunately, they don't give a lot of weight to non-traditional
or alternative medicines. So, say, I don’t know, if you’re getting
acupuncture. That may help you, but you
really need a pain doctor. That is true, just, generally. So you do need to be
going [to them] regularly. And, in addition, you need to be seeing specialists.
Because, primary care doctors do not treat disability.
And,
if you have a condition that is so impairing
that it prevents you from work. Social Security assumes that you need a
specialist. So, don’t let your primary care doctor be treating your cardiac
condition!
[REN]: Okay,
so yeah, so like, if someone had like a mental health condition and you would
also need to see a psychiatrist as well as a GP? Or like a chronic pain a rheumatologist or
something?
[ELIZABETH]: Absolutely.
And, you know, checking in with a psychiatrist once a year is not going to be
adequate!
and
of course you know when you assume Social Security that you know that your
treatment of choice will likely be medications, and see, you're going to need
see that psychiatrist at least four (4) times a year and then you'd also
want to be having psychotherapeutic treatment... hopefully to bulk up your
evidence that you need to see someone with qualifications much more regularly.
[ELIZABETH]: and
a psychiatrist and of course when you go and see your primary care doctor you,
you want to let them know how you're going psychiatrically so that they can all
of your records.
It’s very important WHAT YOU SAY TO YOUR DOCTOR
So,
just to give you an example- I'll give you an example- when I get a few
records from doctors and and it says patient says
“he's fine;” well, know when you go into the appointment and the doctor
actually says how you doing in your mind message that that sends- we're not
fine!
Right
that's what this is all about so you have to say well you know maybe I have
felt better but for the last three months this is what I've been dealing with
and you write the truth of the matter and what symptoms and limitations are.
[REN]: THIS
makes me think a lot of like people with chronic pain where like the question
would be like how are you doing today? and like they
might say, “yeah I'm doing great” because their pains out of five rather than
at an eight?
[ELIZABETH]: Exactly!
[REN]: So,
kind of being able to interpret what you're experiencing like in a way that
your doctor is going to document like know this person is possibly experiencing
pain but it's just, “not a 10!” today, or what have you.
[ELIZABETH]: That
is exactly- that is a FANTASTIC POINT. You’ve got to quantify and
qualify.
And
you want to give **descriptive words** that explain how things have changed, or
stayed the same, or maybe even intensified. *All disabilities involve some
kind, some level, of pain*
**Pain**
is one of the symptoms that really has to be professional yeah thanks for that
another example is where people say things like well you know I'm going to the
gym and you know I just got back from vacation. Well you may have gone to the Bermudas but you stay in your room the whole time because
you couldn't put One Foot In Front of the other but just getting out for a
change of scenery was your purpose you didn't want him to reunions or whatever
so you don't flying around country or whatever and you know as far as
going to the gym maybe your doctor has prescribed and maybe when you get there
you can only last 10 minutes what it is you can and can't do.
[REN]: It
sounds like it also might be useful obviously to understand how to talk to your
doctor about what you're experiencing but also to let your doctor know kind of
what your end goal is so when you're having these conversations you know it's
not just being able to say yeah like my chronic pain was a 5 today so I was
able to move and have breakfast it's also saying like Doc I really am
struggling and think that I'm not going to be able to work and so I'm going to
need to make sure we have all the stuff you meant to, so that I can pursue
Social Security.
[ELIZABETH]: Right.
Now, that is an important conversation, but I have to tell you, it’s also **a
delicate** conversation You don’t want to have that conversation
prematurely when your symptoms and limitations are mild because you can set up
in the record that you're malingering the system.
Or
you can go before it's really necessary and you're in goal is just in case to
“live on the Dole” so to speak.
[VIRGINIA]: I
know *I* have had the experience and I think there are probably a lot of our
listeners have had the experience of like you know doctors assuming people with
chronic conditions like you might be or might be or malignant might be trying
to get attention or just hysterical because they're women under the age of 30!
(Laughter)
[VIRGINIA]: (Continued):
Having this context is really important for
knowing how to convey all of this like I I think this
is a really good service.
[ELIZABETH]: Well,
good. So, I think the way you do that is you have the conversation in stages
where you know you begin to talk about how it's interfering with your ability
to get to work on time or how you had to go home *early* three days this week
or you're constantly calling in sick and then, you know, try and document that,
you know, like, I lost 16 hours of work last week, because I could not get
there!
[REN]: But
always think of the word functioning what's impacting your functioning and I
think that's a really good way to frame this to medical professionals about
this is how this impacts my daily ability to function right, right jokes
knowing already know there's a host of things that have to be done even before
you get to work and if you can't even get through those activities of daily
living without delays and just getting to the office and carrying on is going
to be difficult what are job you can do communicating with your doctor
frequency and intensity of your symptoms and the limitations on your only
functioning including or your record of what's going on and when you allege
disability and social security has something in front of them so what, what
would someone need to do than to actually like literally apply for Social
Security once they have all right okay so it's a pretty straightforward process
can certainly apply online,
Go
right on the homepage there's a link disability and then that link will see no
start an application okay fortunately with SSI apply online right now
[REN/VIRGINIA]: Okay.
and if you have it you don't have
internet access and even with SSDI you would have to wait to apply
[ELIZABETH]: The
he way you do it is you contact
National social security number and I'm just going to give it to you but you
can find it easily one 800-772-1213 when you call there be prepared for a you
leave a full phone number number.**
and then don't hesitate and then
they'll tell them you want to apply for disability and then you will set up an
appointment. Unfortunately, the offices are closed now, but.
[REN]: The
COVID-19 quarantining hopefully this will not be super super
duper long and everything will be fine soon but you know as a recording
and probably as of publication in Elizabeth you were talking about sort of the the idea that you you know that
you can apply online have to call this numbergive me
a specific or is this across the US Nationwide?
[ELIZABETH]: It’ll
be up but again that's strictly for SSI okay SSDI you can apply online and
should have online it's always better
because you have the leisure of filling out the application carefully slowly
you can use in number to get back in the long application anyway if you happen
to not bring it online interview so that would eliminate that are either of you
able to go into the office Ascent full free number folks will send you a form
to fill out in advance of the nerve you gather all the information Social
Security needs such as you consider in your table and conditions all of the
breeding doctors and therapists and so on that are seeing you and their
addresses and phone numbers and show on all of the medications you're taking
your work history has primarily with her interested in primarily the last few
years of your work history.
[ELIZABETH]: (Continued):
Okay so once Social Security gets it send it over to a state agency called
disability determination Services DDS and then I'd agency has analyst Alexa
medical evidence review it and make a decision Social Security office has no
more involvement with that while it's under review so don't drop records off at
Social Security.
[ELIZABETH]:
Be sure to appeal
correctly with your analyst and usually the number to the EDD offices in the
letter he sent so are there any more like chips for Success while people are
going through this process to just make sure that they helped her case as much
as possible your uncle one example of we've talked a lot about reporting your
symptoms accurately and all DDS is going to send you a form called function it it wants to literally know about how you function throughout
the day.
It's
before motor function yes they want to know how are you doing tasks like
looking household here are you driving or you going to the post office me know
how are you spending your texts are you socializing are you wreckreate
how you answer those questions very important no tell you A lot of people want
to answer them in the most glowing terms possible because they don't want to
see themselves as stable I heart really is and I understand that unfortunately
not the time lyric convincing your life is now and so take care of that and
have a family member read it for accuracy and make sure you're really don't
over exaggerate your limitations of paint a Rosy picture okay that's a big one
the only thing is it's imperative that you maintain your health care if you've
lost your job because of your disability you need to sign up for Medicaid
immediate there may be some income restrictions in the family but hopefully
that won't apply to you there are also clinics.
[VIRGINIA]: Haven't
tried on, on our web page link for that I gave you earlier far is Medicaid I'm
sure we will have a whole episode about Medicaid cover virginia.org. Anyways I'm referring to is called
maintaining think it's called when you changing Healthcare, Healthcare just so important
and recommendations but you're not doing your part. I think it's kind of when you mentioned
earlier this idea of like you know utilizing traditional medical practitioners
rather than Alternative Health ones while it's true that again like acupuncture
and things of that can be helpful to your condition should all be documented by
primary care physicians because those aren't going to hold the same weight as
traditional Medical Care right now I'm not suggesting you not do those things
but don't count on those things as providing medical evidence needed for Social
Security Social Security. It even has regulations that state priority and
missionary so well I'm not suggesting you not see those helpful don't rely on
those treatments for your Social Security application get and stay connected
with the medical model yeah they are Social Security application probably isn't
the time to try to be as alternative is possible I think it's the best time to
stick right within those regulations of tightly as you can because I'm easy to
get denied yes and no it's very unfortunate but the system is designed so
you're not a potential and I'd really seems like a lot well documented from the
so I know we could talk about this topic all day cuz
there's so much to talk about but too kind of kind of start wrapping this up is
there a really good place where we can get resources to better understand this
process and should be able to make the best Social Security application you can
possibly will absolutely and I would like to encourage everybody to start with
our website—
[ELIZABETH]: Where
we have a Social Security resource higher pay devoted to Social Security and
the process these are in the form of tides and their outline or laid out
according to the process so there's one about line and then a whole another
section of guides on a peeling and there's even guys on once you get approved
working and eating up Aniston doing that safely like you want to stress the
tips when it's healing guide you'll find on that web page because that's
crucial if you get denied it's really important to appeal that you do so within
60 days to add lines very seriously any night again actually night as well and
you need to appeal again days and you'll have what's called a request for hearing
that's what the deal is and and you'll end up having
a hearing before a judge have to worry it's a private Point NC turn off at
court and want to have representation and that I will tell you all about how to
obtain that so I would think using our resources online would be your best
friend right now and you can go back with numerous times for more information
depending on what stage find out the things online but honestly I'd be leery of
that stay away from that we know our resources are the best because Elizabeth
is the one that crafted all of them and I I cannot
emphasize this enough Elizabeth really is sort of pository
of all Social Security knowledge at the disAbility
Law Center Virginia so I appreciate so much you take and find out if you're
extremely busy schedule to come and impart some of this was job on us and our
listeners so thank you so much you are so welcome
[ELIZABETH]: I am so
happy to do this and I hope you do have me on again, because you're right
there's more to talk about!!
[TRUTH.]
[REN]: We’re not done with you Elizabeth!
[VIRGINIA]: All
right thank you everyone…
**And now, for the dLCV highlights.**
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OF TRANSCRIPTIONS